PROBLEM UPDATE: trade executed correctly?

Zulutarde is claiming that my trade was actually left open by FxMarkets and there is no error on their part. The loosing trade is now in the preformance history as hitting the SL. When they agreed with me that the trade was left open and had been closed by FxMarkets it was a software glitch which blocked them from seeing open trades, but it was really still open on FxMarkets side aswell. And the closed trade we saw in FxMarkets history was a second trade open in the same minute but this was actualy closed with 16 pips profit.
After reading my email reply below which is within the email text of zulutrade, please let me know which version you believe. I have no solid proof and I might have to give up the fight but besides the $500 lost, I have bad feelings trusting them with my money if my assumptions are correct. Lets hope they are correct and I was unlucky.

Dear Zulutrade,

I will respond within your email on the points you mention and then afterwards I will continue my comments. Only 2 days ago you explained the problem being caused by timezones problem. How can it take over two weeks to realize there were "two trades" on the same minute and mine was the unlucky one?
Please read it all through.
thank you.

On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 10:41 AM, zulutrade support wrote:
Dear xxx,
Yes, we admitted we do have a problem and the same as you we though that the trade of 14:20 has already been closed.
However as it turned out later the problem was not in missing signals, but there was a glitch in our system due to which we could not see the open positions of a signal provider as mentioned in previous email. Neither our staff, nor the clients. That is why this confusion took place.

I am sorry but in my first mail I mentioned I checked the Excel sheet of
FxMarkets and saw the closed trade with the SAME provider ticket of 11.633... I also checked the dropdown and chose FxMarkets on the "positions" tab in my acount and I saw OTHER live trades but no trade opened on 31.12.08 14:20 so I did not suffer from a glitch and I saw clearly a live trade closed with the same provider ticket and other live trades not closed.

As we could not identify a problem at that time because it has never happened before, we assumed the same thing as you did because we saw the closed trade which has opened exactly at the same time as your trade did. However when our technical department started analyzing the issue together with FXCM (because they informed us that they will take responsibility if the signals were missed), we found out that none of the signals were missed and that FXmarkets sent two signals at the same time 14:20 (2:20 pm or 9:20 NY time). One has been closed at 16 pips profit, the other has closed when it hit the stop at -487 pips. Please check signal provider's history page more carefully. There are two trades executed at 14:20, not one. But because of the glitch in the system our staff could not know that at the time.

I dont know if there were always 2 trades from the same minute, but my trade was the one which closed correctly in profit since i have the same provider ticket... please check my email from whislt the trade was still open.

And it is not correct to say that fxmarkets has never let the trade to go
up to 271 pip profit.

I mentioned FxMarkets doesnt let the trade get to 271 in PROFIT, not in DD. When ever he had such high profits it was closed shortly later at the most 104 pips away. Ofcourse in DD he goes even further then 271, and even further then 487 pips and would have gone over 700 pips and not let the trade close in Loss.
He uses a trailing stop or something like that and wouldnt have let the trade reach such high profits and then go back again into minus.

Please check his history page. Sometimes he opens short term trades, sometimes he leaves the trade open for a week with a huge drawdown, but closes the trade in a big profit. He likes to place 2 trades at the same time,

FxMarkets is a responsible provider and doesnt leave a trade in 270 pips profit to go into minus again, He always takes profit much before reaching 270 pips anywayTrades which are opened together by FxMarkets are closed almost together, he just waits for a retracement.

so now we are aware of this and will be more careful when a person gets in contact with us claiming that his position has been closed by fxmarkets, but appears open in zulu from now on we always check the provider tickets of the trades instead of looking at the times of open trades

and that is exactly what i did, checked the provider tickets and not the time, and my ticket matched the closed trade

and will check the open positions of a signal provider with technical department in order to avoid such misunderstandings. If you know any person whose trade of fxmarket (31/12) did not close after 06/01let us know, because we did not have any complaints about that. Everybody have either closed their trades manually earlier thinking that the trade appearing in fxmarket's history is their trade and avoided further losses, in other accounts the trade has been closed by the stop value of a signal provider.
We appologize for inconveniences. In any case after analyzing everything carefully we do not see any reason for a refund as the trade has been executed correctly.
Kind Regards,
ZuluTrade.com
Customer Support
48 Wall Str.,New York NY 10005, 10th floor suite

So my dear zulutrade, lets sum it up:

• I saw FxMarkets other live trades when you say there was a software glitch which prevented checking open trades.
• I checked the provider ticket of closed trade in the excel (which has since been removed) and compared it to my provider ticket on the open trade FxMarkets is a responsible provider and doesnt leave a trade in 270 pips profit to go into minus again, he always takes profit beforehand anyway
• What a coincidence that just that trade which is mistakenly "thought" to be
  closed is one out two from 566 FxMarkets trades which are closed in loss, when this problem has no connection with it being a loosing tradeTrades which are opened together by FxMarkets are closed almost together, he just waits for a retracement.
• Only 2 days ago you explained the problem being caused by timezones problem. How can it take over two weeks to realize there were "two trades" on the same minute and mine was the unlucky one?
• Why have you removed the Provider ticket from the Excel sheet? It was very useful to identify a trade.

I therefore feel something is missing in this issue which doesnt let me understand your reasoning.

Thanking you in advance I am awaiting your feedback.
kind regards
xxx

PROBLEM UPDATE: a bombshell

This is a suprise to say the least. They are claiming now the providers trade also got stopped out and was never closed in profit. I am 100% sure this is not the case. (I apolgise the trades data in zulutrades email is not very clear. in my email it was in a table)

Dear xxx,
Your request for a refund has not been confirmed. In signal provider's account the trade has been closed by stop:

LIVE2008/12/31 14:20SELLGBP/JPY132.849 2009/01/06 09:06137.715
271-487-72-487.0 pips-$5,267.66
In your account:
FxMarkets 12/31/2008 09:20 SELL1GBP/JPY132.8012009/01/06 08:32137.715264-491-491.0 pips-$526.47

Signal provider GBP/JPY FxMarkets 12/31/2008 2:20:25 PM 1/6/2009
9:06:03 AM 132.849 137.715 Stop Hit
User GBP/JPY FxMarkets 12/31/2008 9:20:19
AM 1/6/2009 8:32:03 AM 132.801 137.715 Stop Hit

The trade has been closed by the stop of a signal provider in your account as well and we do not find any technical issues. Your signal provider has sent 2 signals at the same time 14:20 UTC (2:20pm UTC or 9:20am NY time that you see on your broker's report), you can see both of these trades in the history of signal provider and the provider tickets for the trades match 11.633662864032423648, so the trade has been executed correctly. The closing time differs as the broker is more accurate in price flactuations and closes positions more precisely than we close in signal provider's account (as he is not linked with the broker).

The problem that we were experiencing at that time is that we could not see open positions of signal provider from live accounts and we had some time zones problems (the opening time of the trade in your account has been taken from FXCM when we normally use UTC time). However it is fixed now. The closing reason we see on our system is STOP HIT for both - your and signal provider's trades. As we see now FX markets is putting unreasonably high stops in order his trades not to close when the stop is hit and he leaves the trades open for few days and eventually closes them in profit, but with a big DD.

In any case we do not see a technical problem or missed signals in your case.
If there are any further questions do not hesitate to contact us again.
Regards,

this is what I replied.

Dear Zulutrade,

I am shocked. Clearly your records have been manipulated.

I saw on the trades of the signal provider on the web, I saw in the Excel sheet of his trades, Rasa from zulutrade chat agreed, you agreed in your first emails that the trade was closed in profit. 16 pips to be exact. You agreed you have to investigate why my trade, and others, were not closed together with the signal provider, you even added the provider has so many users.

Friends in the blog sphere have also mentioned either their trade in the demo was not closed and one guy closed it manually after realizing the providers trade was closed already. Never ever has FxMarkets allowed a trade to reach 270 pips in profit or even close it to it. It does not make sense, and after seeing earlier different records I just don't believe it.

Could you please give me a phone number of the person responsible who also knows about the trade and the problem.

thank you

My dear Bloggers, perhaps I will need your help...

Is there by any chance anyone whos trade closed succesfully with a couple of PIPs profit?

PROBLEM UPDATE: time zone problem?

After dragging on and on I decided yesterday to write zulutrade an email.

Dear Zulutrade Team,

It is now over two weeks since I filed for a refund and over three weeks since the problem occured. You also know about the problem from other clients. I think it is time you finish your investigation and refund my account as soon as possible. At least, plese give me some feedback about the status of the investigation and/or when we can expect the final result.

I would love to give customer care five points but this is dragging on too long... Looking forward to your feedback

kind regards
xxx

and 2 hours later came their reply:

Dear Sir,

The investigation is taking time as your trade has been executed correctly, just shows the different time of the trade open as we have experienced the time zone issue. It says that your trade has opened at 9:20, but has the same broker ticket and provider ticket with the trade 14:20 in signal provider's account. The one that had closed in -490 pips loss. That means that the trade has been executed correctly and closed because of the stop of a signal provider. 9:20 has been taken from FXCM, when normally we do not do that and put the UTC time. This time there had been a problem which has caused the confusion even if the trade has been executed correctly. So we are waiting for the decision from our managment.

Regards,

I dont get it what the timezone problem might influence it, but in any case it doesnt sound like my error but rather zulutrades software glitch

Add Signal Provider Aradi forex? GuruFx?

I am currently in search of reliable signal providers which trade something other then the GBPJPY. Most of the top providers trade the GBPJPY, and I would like to have a dicverse portfolio to reduce my risk.

I have a desire to already change maximum open lots to two but with two GBPJPY trades I could potentialy be blown away with just over $1000 equity. If I were to add a non GBPJPY provider I would have to deactivate tow out of my current three GBPJPY trades; FxMarkets, Scalpers group or GBP$. which one? Or should I still leave it at maximum one open lot? Your thoughts are welcome.

I have an eye on Aradi forex as my non GBPJPY provider. The only problem is he is fairly new, been trading for just 4 weeks with 123 trades, but his records show minimum DD, less the 500 pips, and his three loosing trades are acceptable losses; 20-30 pips.

GuruFx, trades only EURUSD, is even younger, has also smaller trades averaging only 19 pips but are shorter on avergae, only 2.2 hours, then Aradi forex. Browsing through his trades I cant see any loosers but zulutrade gives him 38 out of 39 winners, dont know why.

How long should I give them till I use them?

Drawdown and Margin

One of the criteria I check out on my potentail signal providers is their drawdowns (DD) to calculate the amount of equity I would need to trade their signals. Back in December I filtered only providers which never had a DD of more then approx. 500 pips and decided on maximum of 2 trades for my $1'000 account.

This was all fine untill 05.01.09 when the GBPJPY retraced up leaving FxMarkets and Scalpers Group with DD over 700 pips per trade until they finally went into profit again. So now 500 pips is not enough and even 700, and who knows how far the next retracement (like right now when I have a trade with 358 pips DD) will go.

Chris, who unfortunately lost his profit during the above mentioned retracement asks if 1200 pips is conservative enough. I am not an expert and I dont even pretend to be one. So I leave him to decide on his own. I still dont know when I will change the maximum tardes to two trades into my account.

One idea I did give him was to use also providers not trading the GBPJPY so hopefully they wont be in a DD during the same period the GBPJPY trades are, and you could "borrow" their margin if needed.

Another idea I didnt mention to Chris, would be to use fixed Stop Losses (SL) independent from signal provider, something like 250 pips. Others claim that in the long run this will lead to profit, I have not analyzed this and would love to hear from someone who is livertarding them with a fixed SL.

Total balance 337 pips down

I has some succesful trades this week and broke even, but right now, once again, I am in a drawdown of 358 pips, $395.11 in a GPBJPY sell from Scalpers Group. FxMarkets has also open positions, that makes me feel better, but the first one was opened at a price of 130.855 whilst my open position was opened at 130.08, almost 80 pips lower... Here the email from zulutrade:

Your Zulutrade™ account xxx is 337 pips down this week (1/9/2009 - 1/16/2009). Loss in USD: ($362.35) (includes open positions)

I find the email confusing since it includes closed positions as well so here is my printscreen of the last few closed positions, and I am actually in 20 pips profit besides the open position.

And needless to mention I am still waiting for a refund from zulutrade...How long does their investigation take?

open trade closed with 79 pips profit

Today some good news after the loss from last week.

The trade which has been open since 05.01.2009 closed this morning with 79 pips profit. The GBPJPy is comming down. I think that the FxMarkets is waiting slightly longer until he closes his positions to be able to catch another few pips.

My account is now only minus 197 pips and $ 787.61

This long trade did cost me my nerves. I wasnt too far from a Margin Call. I had a 599 pip drawdown, and that is after I chose providers which had never had a drawdown more then 500 pips. My calculation was 1 trade for each $500 but now I will have to see when I can add more trade. Currently it is anyway set to 1 trade, definetly until my equity is well over $1000 either when I am refunded or have made new profits.

Right now I have no open trades. I removed ClubFx since he has been buying while the others have been selling. Although I hope he closes in profit, I dont want to have large drawdowns right now!